“A home owner calls you out because they have a wet spot in their ceiling directly below the upstairs tub/shower.  It’s getting worse over time.  To make the scenario easier, we will eliminate the possibility of the leak coming from the toilet or lavatory sink.  We will focus on the tub/shower combo.  How do you go about diagnosing the source of the leak?”

Plumbing Leak In Ceiling

Almost every single interviewee responded that they would cut a section of sheetrock out of the ceiling and look through the hole with a flashlight.  Sounds reasonable, right?  It’s the wrong answer!  Here is why:

First of all, what if the leak is being caused by a fault in the faucet itself or the tub spout?  Maybe the leak is due to the trim plate not sealing properly or some bad grout or caulking in or around the tile.  In all of those instances the plumber would have created a hole in your ceiling that does not need to be there.  It would be a shame to remove a large section of sheetrock when all that is necessary is better waterproofing of your shower!  Some may argue that the sheetrock is bad and needs to be replaced anyway.  The easy answer to that is that we are plumbers – not water damage repair techs.  It is not for us to determine what needs to be done to fix water damage.  It is us to fix the plumbing that is causing it.  When that is done, we can refer our customer to a suitable water damage company.  We do our job and let them do theirs.

So how do we diagnose this type of leak?  Let me preface the answer by saying that during any type of plumbing diagnostic, you want to eliminate a single cause at a time.  This means that everything you do eliminates only one possible cause.  Here is how you do it:

Typical Water Meter

First you make sure that no toilets are running, no sinks leaking and no water is being used anywhere in the house.  You check your water meter.  Most meters will have a small dial that detects even a small amount of water usage.  You can test this by turning on one of your hose bibs so a trickle of water is coming out of it.  Then look at your meter.  The small dial (usually round or triangle) should be turning visibly.  When you turn of the hose bib, the dial should stop.  If it continues to move, you have a “supply side” leak somewhere.  You can further narrow it down by turning off the main shut-off valve to your house.  If the dial keeps moving, your leak is outside, before the house.  If it stops, the leak is in your house somewhere (maybe the tub/shower).  You can narrow it down even further by turning of the cold supply to your water heater.  If the dial stops, the leak is on the hot side somewhere.  If it keeps going, it is on the cold side.

Let’s assume that the meter is not spinning, so we know it is not a leak on the supply side of your plumbing system.  The next thing to do is start from the bottom up.  Get a ladder and put it under the wet spot in your ceiling.  This will make it easier to hear if water is dripping onto the sheetrock.  You may even want to poke a small hole in the sheetrock with a small screwdriver and let any standing water drain into a bucket.  That way when the leak starts it is easier to see.

Plug the tub drain, fill up a 5 gallon bucket (from a different source or water) and pour it into the tub, being careful not to splash.  Do that a few times until your tub is holding a fair amount of water.  Does that recreate the leak?  Don’t forget that you need to give it some time for the leak to show up.  If that does create a leak, the problem is with the “strainer” itself.  It may be loose, or the putty (or whatever sealant was used) wore out.  Often this can be fixed by loosening the drain, packing putty between the strainer and the tub and retightening.

If that does not create the leak, pull the plug on the tub and let the water drain.  Does that do it?  Again, give it time for the leak to show up, this is not a 5 minute process.  If the leak shows up them, it is the drainage plumbing.  In this case, removal of sheetrock will likely be necessary to be able to fix the problem.  If it does not recreate the leak, you have eliminated the drainage and can proceed to the next step.

Next, turn on the water to your tub.  Since you have already eliminated the drains, if the leak shows op now, you know that the problem is either in the faucet itself or the pipe going from the faucet to the tub spout.  The easiest thing to do now, is to take off the shower handle(s) and trim and see if you can see anything happening in the wall.

Next, turn the shower on.  Be careful to make sure that the water is going directly to the tub and not splashing the walls.  If the leak shows up now, it is either the pipe between the faucet and the shower head, or the shower arm itself.  The latter is the most likely.

If you still have no results, it is time to start splashing around some water.  Try running water over the overflow cover, the shower handles, different areas of your tile, etc.  Splash water on your shower doors too – anywhere where water might go when showering needs to be exposed to water.  The trick here is to do everything one at a time, so that when you get a positive result, you know what caused it.

If you have followed these procedures to the letter, your plumbing leak will be found by the time you get to the end.  Just be patient and keep your eyes and ears open.

Now for the spoiler – Can you guess what the majority of upstairs plumbing leaks is caused by?  By far, the most common cause is a problem with the tile.  Usually something that can be fixed by simply applying tub and tile caulk to the defective area.  It’s kind of silly to remove sheetrock from your ceiling to diagnose that your tub needs to be re-caulked, don’t you think?

Stay tuned for more plumbing info and tips to come soon!  As always, I am available to answer any questions you may have via comment, the contact page or our plumbing forum.

Thanks for reading.

This article is going to focus almost entirely on up-sellers.  These are complete plumbers, and the true plumbing professionals will be in this group.  There are a LOT of impostors though, so I want you to know how to tell the difference.  You want a professional working on your plumbing.

How to tell a plumbing professional from an impostor.

Plumbing Professional

The first look when you open the door should tell a lot.  His pants may be a little dirty from working all day, but his uniform shirt should be clean.  His hands and face should be clean.  If you seen his truck, is it fairly clean and look well maintained?  A true plumbing professional will always do his best to show himself as a professional.  You cannot trust someone who cannot take care of himself to take care of your home.

Listen to him talk about how to solve your problems.  Give him a small problem to discuss, and you will know if he sounds knowledgeable and capable.  Give him a small plumbing problem to fix and observe how he approaches it, how he works, etc.  Does he keep his area clean? Is his work clean?  Does he respect your home?  Is he comfortable with you watching him work?  These areas are all very important.  If he cannot pass these tests, he is not the one that you want doing other work.

Believe it or not, there are a lot of plumbers out there that will pass all of these tests.  Unfortunately, the majority of plumbers will fail it.  The fact of the matter is that you want a true pro.  Regardless of what you may think, a true pro will not charge any more money than an impostor! An impostor actually thinks he is a pro, so he will charge accordingly.

How to find a true professional plumber.

Finding a true pro is actually easier than you think.  Do some research online.  Look at company reviews.  Stay away from “he fixed my problem in 15 minutes for only $50”, unless you want an in and out tech (see previous article).  Look for: “he was able to find…”, “he found…”, “he thoroughly…” and so on.  These are the companies that teach their plumbers to be thorough and look for long term solutions.

When you find those companies, you call them to schedule a service call.  Do NOT ask them for their rates!! That is the worst thing you can do.  If they advertise free estimates, that is all you need to know until you talk to them in person.  Most companies that advertise free estimates will not quote you over the phone anyway.  You want to get the best plumbers from these companies to meet with you, so that you can match the dollars vs the value that they are offering.  Here is how you do it:

When you call a plumbing company to schedule service, you want to let them know about your problem and whether or not it is urgent.  Give them your best understanding of it.  Let them know that you are looking for more than a quick fix (if you are).  If you have had problems with other plumbers in the past, it is okay to share that.  Don’t talk bad about the other plumber, but make sure you let them know that you want a good job done. These companies will see you as a great opportunity and they will likely send one of their best guys.  That is what you want.

How do you deal with the plumber once he shows up?

The first step is to follow the guidelines above to tell if he is a pro or an impostor.  You won’t always be able to get him started on something small, however.  What do you do then?  Simple – you collect estimates.

I always recommend that you start with small jobs and build a relationship with a plumber that you will use forever.  If you have not been able to do that yet, you do not let a plumber do any major work without collecting at least another estimate or two.  Not only do you want to make sure you are not being overcharged, but you want to pick a pro.  Trust me when I say that getting a job done cheaply when you know it can be done better will cost you a LOT more in the long run.

If you do have a small job that you can let the plumber start right away, that’s fine.  Just be ready for him to come to you for the “bump”.  The bump is the bigger scope of work that will give you additional benefits.  There is nothing wrong with him doing this.  It is actually what you want, as long as he is being straight forward about it.  Here are some tips for you to use when dealing with the “bump”.

• If your gut tells you to think it over for a day or so, listen to your gut.  It is probably telling you the truth.
• Ask if it NEEDS to be done today.  This will give you an idea of how honest he is (very few things NEED to be done today).
• Make sure you understand EXACTLY what is being proposed and the benefits of it being done.
• Weight the benefits vs. the expense.  Is this repair going to be worth the money it costs to get it done?
• Make sure you are getting the right plumber for the job.  If you feel someone else can do a better job, hire them.

When it comes right down to it, money always seems to be a major contributor to the process of making decisions about your plumbing.  There is nothing wrong with that as long as you factor in the long term costs as well.  Never ever choose a plumber because they are the cheapest.  You may get lucky once or twice, but it will cost you more in the long run.

An interesting thing happened today.  I joined a plumbing forum.  The forum rules said that I could have a link to my website in my signature, so I put the link to the PlumbingInfo.org home page.  I went to the part of the forum where new members can introduce themselves and created a post that basically said, “Hello!  Steve from California here.  I am dropping in to say hello”.  After several people from that site went to view this website, I was banned from the forum!

Just proof that most plumbers do NOT want you to be an informed consumer!  They are afraid of you knowing what this site is telling you.  My girlfriend assures me, however, that I am doing the right thing.  Now, on to the topic at hand…

In this article, I wanted to cover plumbers themselves and how to know whether or not you have the right plumber for your plumbing needs.  Most of you don’t know the difference, so I hope this helps.

There are basically two types of service plumbers (new construction/remodel plumbers are a different breed).  They usually work under different pay structures, but the structures do overlap some. They are:

• “In and out” techs
• Up-sellers

In and Out Techs

They want to get in, figure out the quickest way to get you a result, collect their money and get moving to the next plumbing call.  The reason is that they are usually either paid by the hour with bonuses for completing x amount of calls, paid according to how many calls they take (paid per call), or they are paid per billable hour.  Paid per billable hour means that since each job is billed to you with a 1 hour minimum charge, if they can finish your job in less than an hour and hurry on to the next job, they are still getting paid for yours.  Using this method makes it possible for the plumber to actually get paid for 10 or even 12 billable hours in an 8 hours day, depending upon how fast they are.  Some of these guys are commission-based as well

The good thing about in and out techs is that if you know that what you need done is a quick, easy fix, they will take care of it quickly and be out of your hair.  A lot of them will quote you an hourly rate over the phone, so you pretty much know what you are going to spend before hand.

The bad thing about them is that they are usually specialized in 1 or 2 areas.  They may be great at clearing your sewer line, but will fumble over other work that they do not do as often.  Also, these plumbers do not really care about performing anything other than a quick fix.  They just don’t want to spend the extra time.  They also have a tendency to make a mess wherever they are working.

Up-sellers

These are the best plumbers to have deal with the majority of your plumbing issues; they are also the ones you most need to be careful of.  These guys are almost all commission-based employees, or they own the company.  Either way, the more they charge you, the more they get paid.  That statement sounds kind of scary, but let’s look at both sides of it.

Most plumbing issues are not a simple, quick fix.  You almost always have options.  The only way to get those options fully explored is with an up-seller.  Their specialty is to get in, get started at relieving the symptom of your plumbing problem, then approaching you with a more permanent solution.  If that is what you want, then you can okay the further work.  If not, you can tell them “no thank you”.

Up-sellers are masters at finding everything that is wrong with your plumbing and spotting things that can go wrong in the future.  Whether you want them to fix it all is another story.  I believe, however, that it is always better to have too much info than not enough.

The bad thing about up-sellers is that they can be quite persistent.  They are also more likely to try to take advantage of you – either by overcharging, or trying to sell you work that you don’t need.  This is where the article “Before You Call a Plumber” is helpful.

So which way to go?

Well, I spent most of my career as an up-seller, and I truly believe that they give the best service.  Let me explain why.  Let’s take what would seem to most people to be a fairly straight forward plumbing issue that most would think is a quick fix:

Let’s say that every six months to a year, you notice that your kitchen sink drain starts draining slowly.  You call out an “in and out” company every time it happens and they charge you $100 to clear the line. It is good for another 6 months to a year.  Let’s say you call me out next time it happens.  I am going to ask about your experiences and offer a more complete solution.  If you decide that you are happy with $100 every 6 months to a year, I will do that for you. If, however, I can jet your lines for $300 and that’ll keep your drains open more than 3x as long, that saves you future time, inconvenience, and money. I make more money and you get a better product.  That gives us a win/win.  A good service plumber always wants the win/win.   Although, if you are in a hurry and just want something done quickly, an in and out tech is what you want.

In my next article, I will cover how to know which plumber you are getting, and the best way to maximize your results with each, to make sure you are getting the best value for your plumbing dollar.  Talk to you then.

Steve