Plumbing » plumbing

How to Fix a Slab Leak

Steve — Wed, 11 Aug 2010 00:18:43 +0000

A slab leak can be one of the more frightening experiences a homeowner has to deal with when it comes to emergency plumbing problems. Actually, that is a bit of a misstatement, because they aren’t usually an emergency at all, although they are often thought of as one.

Quite often a slab leak isn’t even discovered until a homeowner finds themselves with a huge water bill. They will call a plumber out to try to figure out why, and the plumber will inform the homeowner that they have a water line leaking under the slab. That means that the leak has been there for around a month or so already – so much for an emergency.

First of all, I want to let you in on how I used to find leaks under slabs. This might help you, since most pros do it the same way. Obviously the first thing to consider is whether the house is really on a slab. If you don’t know whether your house has a crawl space, just stomp on the floor once. If you get a hollow sound, you have a crawl space, and the leak can be looked for there (once the access is found). If it is solid and unyielding, you are likely on a slab.

The next thing is to try to figure out whether it is the hot or cold water. Simply feeling for hot spots on the floor may be the easiest way to tell. Even if I do not find any hot spots, I will usually turn off the hot water and see if the leak stops. You can usually hear the leak when walking throughout a house. In the rare instance where you cannot, watching the meter will tell you if the leak has stopped or not.

I do need to backtrack a bit. It is very important that you or the plumber check every fixture very thoroughly to make sure that something else is not leaking. I cannot count the times when what others thought was a slab leak, I found was a leaking hose bib, irrigation valve or toilet. Even good plumbers overlook this sometimes. It happens.

If you are lucky enough to have a wet spot or a hot spot on the floor, then you have a bit of a head start. That will usually show you the area of the plumbing leak, but not always. Do not depend on that, however. I have seen leaks that were up to 10 feet away from the only wet spot. Water finds the easiest avenue to escape, so what might seem like a spot where the leak is could easily be the spot where there is a crack in your slab.

The next thing I will usually do is try to map out where the pipes go. I can often do this based on my experience, but it never hurts to actually locate the pipes with an electronic pipe locator. This is not essential, but it makes finding the leak a lot faster, because you only need to look where the pipes are. If you don’t know where the plumbing runs under your slab, you will be “looking” for leaks everywhere, including where there are no pipes.

Next, find the general location. If you don’t have a wet spot or a warm spot, you need to very carefully listen for where the sound is loudest. Listen behind the toilets, under the sinks, etc. The pipes are usually noisiest nearest the leak. Once you have the general area located and know where the pipes are, you can begin the fun part. I have an air compressor (a very quiet one) and an adapter that I made so that I can connect an air hose to an outside hose bib. I keep the compressor in my truck with the doors closed to further minimize the sound. Then I turn the water off at the main and pump air into the line at about 60-80 psi. I try to keep it near the working water pressure of the house, so I don’t force air into the city main. I will go into the house and open up one of the faucets until that faucet starts to spit.

I then turn the faucet off and let the compressor catch up. Some very helpful will happen. The air, mixed will small amounts of water will make a very specific and recognizable sound as it exits the leak. The pipes themselves will burble and such, but there will be a distinct “spitting” sound at the leak. Now you just have to find that sound.

I use one of two things when listening for the sound. The one that I use primarily is called a Geophone. You can actually get these (if you are so inclined) from PollardWater. There are also a variety of electronic listening devices on the market. They are a lot more expensive. The Geophone will cost about the same as someone doing leak detection for you, so unless you plan on having a lot of slab leaks, it is probably best to get a pro to find it. Still, it never hurts to know the process, so you are informed.

Once the leak is found, fixing it is really not that hard. It is a bit dangerous though, so I do recommend having this done by a pro. Basically the process starts with removing the flooring; whether it is tile, linoleum, wood, carpet, etc., then using a small jackhammer to remove a section of concrete. I try to keep the hole as small as I can – just big enough to work in. Next, the leak needs to be positively located, and a section of the leaking pipe removed and a new piece tied in. Do not allow someone to “patch” the pipe. The section must be removed and replaced.

Don't do this (bad)

Now, let me stop for a second and tell you that this is meant to be done with copper pipe. There are still homes out there that actually have galvanized water piping under their slab. If that is you, I do not recommend trying to repair it. The best course of action in this case is to do what is called a partial or full bypass. That basically means that you need to cut off the flow to some or all of your slab piping and run new pipes overhead. This is usually done within an attic. I have run across homes that do not have attics, at which point I needed to run the pipes on the roof. This is the way it has to be with Eichler homes. In fact, my “falling off the roof” incident happened towards the end of an Eichler re-pipe.

Finally, when the repair is made, I recommend turning the water back on to test before closing up the hole. Once it has been verified that there are no more leaks, I will get rid of the old soil that I took out to get to the pipe and fill with sand. I do this because the old soil is wet and will cause the concrete patch to settle. Sand will be compacted 100%, and will fill in some of the gaps as well that were created by the leak.

Next, you just poor concrete into the hole, level it off and let it cure. I recommend leaving it uncovered for at least 7 days before replacing your floor covering. It sound like a pretty big process to go through – and it is. Different companies in different areas charge different amounts for these, but I use to charge between $2500 and $3800 to find and fix the leak. That included replacing the concrete to “patch” finish.

One final little bit of info for you, and this may be the most helpful part of this article: Check with your insurance company and find out if they will cover you, and if so, what parts they cover. In my area, many of the good homeowner’s insurance companies will pay for the leak location, the tearing out of the flooring and concrete to “access” the leak, and the replacement of the concrete and flooring. Knowing this can really help. The repair of the pipe is the easiest part, and can easily be shown on the invoice to have cost $150 or something, while the rest of it would be covered by your policy. Out of all of the slab leaks I have repaired, I would say that about 80% were covered. They will NOT usually cover a re-pipe however, but that is in my area, yours might be different.

Diagnosing an Upstairs Plumbing Leak

Steve — Fri, 08 Jan 2010 22:24:55 +0000

Diagnosing an upstairs plumbing leak can actually be a lot trickier than a lot of people may think. In fact, when I worked for Allstar Plumbing, one of the questions we asked every potential employee during the interview process was how to properly perform this diagnosis. Even when making the scenario fairly simple, almost everyone got it wrong. Here is the scenario that we gave:

“A home owner calls you out because they have a wet spot in their ceiling directly below the upstairs tub/shower. It’s getting worse over time. To make the scenario easier, we will eliminate the possibility of the leak coming from the toilet or lavatory sink. We will focus on the tub/shower combo. How do you go about diagnosing the source of the leak?”

Plumbing Leak In Ceiling

Almost every single interviewee responded that they would cut a section of sheetrock out of the ceiling and look through the hole with a flashlight. Sounds reasonable, right? It’s the wrong answer! Here is why:

First of all, what if the leak is being caused by a fault in the faucet itself or the tub spout? Maybe the leak is due to the trim plate not sealing properly or some bad grout or caulking in or around the tile. In all of those instances the plumber would have created a hole in your ceiling that does not need to be there. It would be a shame to remove a large section of sheetrock when all that is necessary is better waterproofing of your shower! Some may argue that the sheetrock is bad and needs to be replaced anyway. The easy answer to that is that we are plumbers – not water damage repair techs. It is not for us to determine what needs to be done to fix water damage. It is us to fix the plumbing that is causing it. When that is done, we can refer our customer to a suitable water damage company. We do our job and let them do theirs.

So how do we diagnose this type of leak? Let me preface the answer by saying that during any type of plumbing diagnostic, you want to eliminate a single cause at a time. This means that everything you do eliminates only one possible cause. Here is how you do it:

Typical Water Meter

First you make sure that no toilets are running, no sinks leaking and no water is being used anywhere in the house. You check your water meter. Most meters will have a small dial that detects even a small amount of water usage. You can test this by turning on one of your hose bibs so a trickle of water is coming out of it. Then look at your meter. The small dial (usually round or triangle) should be turning visibly. When you turn of the hose bib, the dial should stop. If it continues to move, you have a “supply side” leak somewhere. You can further narrow it down by turning off the main shut-off valve to your house. If the dial keeps moving, your leak is outside, before the house. If it stops, the leak is in your house somewhere (maybe the tub/shower). You can narrow it down even further by turning of the cold supply to your water heater. If the dial stops, the leak is on the hot side somewhere. If it keeps going, it is on the cold side.

Let’s assume that the meter is not spinning, so we know it is not a leak on the supply side of your plumbing system. The next thing to do is start from the bottom up. Get a ladder and put it under the wet spot in your ceiling. This will make it easier to hear if water is dripping onto the sheetrock. You may even want to poke a small hole in the sheetrock with a small screwdriver and let any standing water drain into a bucket. That way when the leak starts it is easier to see.

Plug the tub drain, fill up a 5 gallon bucket (from a different source or water) and pour it into the tub, being careful not to splash. Do that a few times until your tub is holding a fair amount of water. Does that recreate the leak? Don’t forget that you need to give it some time for the leak to show up. If that does create a leak, the problem is with the “strainer” itself. It may be loose, or the putty (or whatever sealant was used) wore out. Often this can be fixed by loosening the drain, packing putty between the strainer and the tub and retightening.

If that does not create the leak, pull the plug on the tub and let the water drain. Does that do it? Again, give it time for the leak to show up, this is not a 5 minute process. If the leak shows up them, it is the drainage plumbing. In this case, removal of sheetrock will likely be necessary to be able to fix the problem. If it does not recreate the leak, you have eliminated the drainage and can proceed to the next step.

Next, turn on the water to your tub. Since you have already eliminated the drains, if the leak shows op now, you know that the problem is either in the faucet itself or the pipe going from the faucet to the tub spout. The easiest thing to do now, is to take off the shower handle(s) and trim and see if you can see anything happening in the wall.

Next, turn the shower on. Be careful to make sure that the water is going directly to the tub and not splashing the walls. If the leak shows up now, it is either the pipe between the faucet and the shower head, or the shower arm itself. The latter is the most likely.

If you still have no results, it is time to start splashing around some water. Try running water over the overflow cover, the shower handles, different areas of your tile, etc. Splash water on your shower doors too – anywhere where water might go when showering needs to be exposed to water. The trick here is to do everything one at a time, so that when you get a positive result, you know what caused it.

If you have followed these procedures to the letter, your plumbing leak will be found by the time you get to the end. Just be patient and keep your eyes and ears open.

Now for the spoiler – Can you guess what the majority of upstairs plumbing leaks is caused by? By far, the most common cause is a problem with the tile. Usually something that can be fixed by simply applying tub and tile caulk to the defective area. It’s kind of silly to remove sheetrock from your ceiling to diagnose that your tub needs to be re-caulked, don’t you think?

Stay tuned for more plumbing info and tips to come soon! As always, I am available to answer any questions you may have via comment, the contact page or our plumbing forum.

Thanks for reading.

Plumbing 101a | Flow vs Pressure

Steve — Tue, 22 Dec 2009 21:05:45 +0000

As a service plumber, one of the most common plumbing problems that I have been asked to diagnose is low “water pressure”. The reason that I put “water pressure” in quotes is because what a customer thinks is low water pressure is quite often actually low flow. There is a difference, and that difference is very important when trying to figure out the best remedy for the problem.

Typical pressure regulator

So what’s the difference? Pressure is the amount of force behind the water, pushing it through your pipes. It is measured in pounds per square inch (psi). Flow is the amount of water that “flows” out of an open outlet, like an open hose bib or faucet. Flow is usually

measured (in the US) in gallons per minute (gpm). The symptoms for low pressure and low flow can sometimes look similar, but it is usually pretty easy to diagnose.

Pressure

The hot and cold water in your plumbing system is under constant pressure. The ideal pressure for an average home is between 55-75 psi. If your water is supplied by a public utility company, the pressure to your home is determined by a number of factors – none of which you have control over. If you have a private water source, you have a bit more control. The first thing to do if you feel you may have pressure issues is to go to test it.

Most home improvement or plumbing supply stores have pressure gauges that you can buy for about $10 or so. Get one that will screw onto a hose bib. Screw it onto the hose bib that is closest to your water main, turn the bib on, and see what the pressure reads. If it is between 55-75psi, you don’t have a pressure problem. You should also check to see if you have a pressure regulator (PRV). They look like the picture at the top of this article.

pressure gauge

If you do not have a PRV and the pressure is too high, call a plumber and have them install one.
If you have a PRV and the pressure is too high, the PRV is likely bad and needs replacement.
If you have a PRV and the pressure is too low, you can try to adjust the PRV. If that doesn’t work, check your neighbor’s pressure. If theirs is too low as well, it is likely not your PRV, but a problem with the municipal supply. If theirs is fine, your PRV is bad.
If you don’t have a PRV and the pressure is too low, you can try checking your neighbor’s pressure, but it will likely be the same. It’s a problem with the municipal supply, and there’s not much that can usually be done.

Flow

This is the category under which 75% of the problems I have seen have been. If you keep in mind the way in which plumbing is run, figuring out what the problem here is can be fairly simple. If the pressure to your home is fine, but you are not happy with the water supply to one or more fixtures, it pretty much has to be a flow problem. I drew a simple example of how the water supply plumbing is run on a typical house. Hot water is red, cold water is blue.

simple plumbing layout

By understanding the layout, it is much easier to figure out the cause of your flow problem. Let’s look at some examples:

Let’s say, for instance that you have very little flow to the hot water side of you bathtub. All other fixtures are fine. That would mean that there is an obstruction of some kind either in the small section of line from the main hot water line to the fixture, or in the hot side of the faucet itself. See below:

If, on the other hand, the hot water flow to the entire house is low, the obstruction would have to be either right at the water heater or in the short section of hot water piping between the water heater and the branch line for the washer. There is a small possibility that the cold water plumbing feeding the water heater may be the culprit, but it is much more likely that the hot line is at fault. See below:

One very common scenario is a single fixture with low flow (both hot and cold side). This is almost always due to a clogged aerator. Calcium from the water heater and/or rust from galvanized water lines or the water heater will build up in the faucet aerators and reduce the flow to that fixture. In this case, the solution is as easy as removing the aerator, cleaning it, and reinstalling. That will usually be enough to restore flow to that fixture.

To remove the aerator, I recommend using small “channel lock” type pliers. Wrap the jaws with electrical tape to keep the pliers from scratching the finish. Remember “righty-tighty, lefty-loosy”. Refer to the diagram below for further info.

One final point to keep in mind: An obstruction in your water supply lines will not lower your pressure; it will lower your flow. Understanding this can really help with diagnosing your plumbing issues. Do your best to try to narrow the problem down, and take care of simple things yourself. Call a plumber to fix those things that you cannot handle yourself. Either way, getting a jump start on the diagnostics can save you tons of time and money on your plumbing repairs.

Plumbing 101|Residential Drain Plumbing

Steve — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 02:57:21 +0000

Quite often a home owner’s first experience with a plumbing problem is when a drain in their home backs up. Knowing how your drainage system works and the most common causes of back-up problems with different drain lines can really help you when it comes time to get your drains serviced. This information will make it easier for you to get the right solution to your problem, and make life easier for the plumber who is trying to explain it all to you.

Let’s begin with a little plumbing theory. Please keep in mind, that depending on your area, your lay-out may be different. I will give you a simple layout to give you an idea of how drains tie together. Your plumbing may be a bit different, but the theory will be the same.

Plumbing Drain-lines (Remodle)

We will start with a 1 bathroom home, for the sake of simplicity. Let’s say that the toilet is at the back of the house. That is the end of your house sewer line. Your toilet will connect straight into that main line (3 or 4 inch), go towards the front of your house, and continue through your front yard and into the street where it ties into the public sewer. Maybe you have a septic system, and the line runs straight to the back of your house where it ties into the septic tank. Either way, the thing to remember here is that your main will usually run from the furthest toilet, as straight as possible, until it reaches whatever it ties into (public sewer, septic tank, etc.).

All of your other plumbing fixtures will drain into smaller drainage lines (1 ½”- 2” lines called secondary lines) that tie into the main at different points. Your bathroom sink may tie into your shower line before it goes to the main, or your laundry line tie into your kitchen line, but they all tie into the main. The only plumbing fixture with direct access to the main is the toilet. A 2 bath house is the same, but with more tie-ins.

Common problems

Kitchen/Laundry backups

Symptoms – The kitchen sink won’t drain, the laundry stand pipe overflows, or both. The toilet flushes fine without adding to these symptoms.

Causes – Laundry and kitchen lines are often tied together. The cause of their backups is usually grease. Grease from pots, pans, dishes, clothes, etc. build up in the line and cause debris to accumulate (food particles, lint, etc.).

What you can do – Check to make sure your disposer is functioning. Look outside your kitchen area to see if you have a small cleanout. Look in your garage for a cleanout. Try to determine if multiple fixtures are affected or just one. Clean out the underside of your sink if the kitchen sink is affected. Do NOT use drain cleaning chemicals. They will not dissolve grease related back-ups, even if they can reach them (which is doubtful), and many plumbers will charge you more to clear drain lines with Drano in them.

Remedy – If the blockage is in the p-trap under the kitchen sink, the repair is simply a matter of removing the waste lines under the sink and cleaning them out. If not, the plumber must access your drain lines and attempt to cable them clear. I personally recommend that the plumber also treat the line with a degreasing agent and perhaps cable the line a second time, to help get the grease out. This extra step will cost a little more, but will usually at least triple the amount of time it would have otherwise taken to back up again. This should save you money in the long run.

Some lines may be so stubborn that they require high pressure jetting to get the grease out. I also recommend visual inspection of the pipes under the home if the plumber feels anything out of the ordinary. Grease is a corrosive and can eat away pipes. You will want to know if that is happening before it creates a lake under your home.

Tubs, showers and lavatory sinks

Symptoms – Back ups of one or more of these plumbing fixtures without toilet problems.

Causes – Usually soap scum, sludge and hair

Remedy – You can try chemical drain cleaners here, if you feel bold. They will usually do a decent job of dissolving the hair that is causing these problems. Remember though that these chemicals are not good for your plumbing. They can eat away at your drain lines like crazy. Other than that, clearing these drains is usually pretty straight forward. A plumber may elect to use a degreasing agent if he feels the sludge is really bad to prolong the time between the next back up, but that’s a judgment call. Tubs can be tricky because of the special drain piping they have (called a waste/overflow). Older waste/overflows can be brittle and cabling through them can be all it takes to bust them free and have a leak under your house. It never hurts to have your plumber peak under the house and check it out.

Sewer main back-ups

Symptoms – Since water always finds the lowest point to escape, a sewer main backup will usually show itself by toilets backing up into the shower or tub. If your tub or shower starts to back up, check your toilets. If they are “burbling” or backing up into the tub or shower, it is the main. We are assuming, of course that they are both on the bottom floor. The rule of thumb here is that if a toilet affects another fixture – it is a main back-up. If you have an outside 3” or 4” cleanout that is holding water or overflowing, that is another sign that it’s your main.

Causes – In my experience, the most common cause of sewer main back-ups are roots. Roots need barely more than a microscopic hole to start growing into your main. From there, they just grow and grow and grow. Roots can be so strong that they can literally break your sewer line up into pieces! Other common causes are “bellies” in the line (flat spots that cause debris to build up), offsets (sections of the line shift under ground and become misaligned), and breaks that actually allow the surrounding soil to enter your pipe. There are other potential causes, but these are the most common.

What you can do – The only really productive thing you can do in this situation is check for proper access points. If you can find an outside clean-out that is 3” or 4” in diameter, it will save you and the plumber time.

Remedy – This depends upon whether or not you have a cleanout. If you do not, I highly recommend that you install one. There is no such thing as a one time sewer back-up. If your sewer is backing up, it usually means there is a problem with it. There are other ways to access the line, but you are very limited without having a cleanout.

Once a cleanout is found or installed, or another access is found (pulling a toilet, etc), the next step is to attempt to free the blockage with a sewer cable. You want your plumber to use the biggest blade possible on his cable to do as thorough a job as possible. If he cannot clear your line with the proper sized blade, the roots are either very strong or you have an offset. If he needs to resort to a smaller blade, so be it, but you need to get the line clear for the next step.

Survey the line – Have your plumber run a camera survey of the line to determine its condition. Some plumbers will cable your line and tell you that you need to replace it. That may be true, but you can never know for sure until the line in surveyed. Once the camera survey is done, you will know what to do next. Sometimes the roots are small and you have some time. Sometimes a spot repair will do the trick. Other times it is better to just replace the line. The point is that once a camera survey is done, you will have a better grasp of your options, and it is always best to make informed decisions.

While trying to DIY is always a sound idea, sometimes a 4 AM toilet or drain problem can best be solved by calling a company like this emergency plumber Toronto service. They’ll show up any time of the day or night and tackle the situation right away.

Well, I think I cover most of it here. If you feel I missed something, please feel free to leave a comment or sign up to the plumbing forum and post your questions there.

See you next time!

Steve

Know Your Plumber Part 2

Steve — Sun, 22 Nov 2009 00:28:05 +0000

Hello again! In my last plumbing info article, I talked about the two different types of plumbers and the pluses and minuses of using each. I also revealed my opinion on the best kind to go for to deal with most plumbing issues. In this article, I am going to tell you how to make sure you are getting the best value for your plumbing dollar.

This article is going to focus almost entirely on up-sellers. These are complete plumbers, and the true plumbing professionals will be in this group. There are a LOT of impostors though, so I want you to know how to tell the difference. You want a professional working on your plumbing.

How to tell a plumbing professional from an impostor.

Plumbing Professional

The first look when you open the door should tell a lot. His pants may be a little dirty from working all day, but his uniform shirt should be clean. His hands and face should be clean. If you seen his truck, is it fairly clean and look well maintained? A true plumbing professional will always do his best to show himself as a professional. You cannot trust someone who cannot take care of himself to take care of your home.

Listen to him talk about how to solve your problems. Give him a small problem to discuss, and you will know if he sounds knowledgeable and capable. Give him a small plumbing problem to fix and observe how he approaches it, how he works, etc. Does he keep his area clean? Is his work clean? Does he respect your home? Is he comfortable with you watching him work? These areas are all very important. If he cannot pass these tests, he is not the one that you want doing other work.

Believe it or not, there are a lot of plumbers out there that will pass all of these tests. Unfortunately, the majority of plumbers will fail it. The fact of the matter is that you want a true pro. Regardless of what you may think, a true pro will not charge any more money than an impostor! An impostor actually thinks he is a pro, so he will charge accordingly.

How to find a true professional plumber.

Finding a true pro is actually easier than you think. Do some research online. Look at company reviews. Stay away from “he fixed my problem in 15 minutes for only $50”, unless you want an in and out tech (see previous article). Look for: “he was able to find…”, “he found…”, “he thoroughly…” and so on. These are the companies that teach their plumbers to be thorough and look for long term solutions.

When you find those companies, you call them to schedule a service call. Do NOT ask them for their rates!! That is the worst thing you can do. If they advertise free estimates, that is all you need to know until you talk to them in person. Most companies that advertise free estimates will not quote you over the phone anyway. You want to get the best plumbers from these companies to meet with you, so that you can match the dollars vs the value that they are offering. Here is how you do it:

When you call a plumbing company to schedule service, you want to let them know about your problem and whether or not it is urgent. Give them your best understanding of it. Let them know that you are looking for more than a quick fix (if you are). If you have had problems with other plumbers in the past, it is okay to share that. Don’t talk bad about the other plumber, but make sure you let them know that you want a good job done. These companies will see you as a great opportunity and they will likely send one of their best guys. That is what you want.

How do you deal with the plumber once he shows up?

The first step is to follow the guidelines above to tell if he is a pro or an impostor. You won’t always be able to get him started on something small, however. What do you do then? Simple – you collect estimates.

I always recommend that you start with small jobs and build a relationship with a plumber that you will use forever. If you have not been able to do that yet, you do not let a plumber do any major work without collecting at least another estimate or two. Not only do you want to make sure you are not being overcharged, but you want to pick a pro. Trust me when I say that getting a job done cheaply when you know it can be done better will cost you a LOT more in the long run.

If you do have a small job that you can let the plumber start right away, that’s fine. Just be ready for him to come to you for the “bump”. The bump is the bigger scope of work that will give you additional benefits. There is nothing wrong with him doing this. It is actually what you want, as long as he is being straight forward about it. Here are some tips for you to use when dealing with the “bump”.

If your gut tells you to think it over for a day or so, listen to your gut. It is probably telling you the truth.
Ask if it NEEDS to be done today. This will give you an idea of how honest he is (very few things NEED to be done today).
Make sure you understand EXACTLY what is being proposed and the benefits of it being done.
Weight the benefits vs. the expense. Is this repair going to be worth the money it costs to get it done?
Make sure you are getting the right plumber for the job. If you feel someone else can do a better job, hire them.

When it comes right down to it, money always seems to be a major contributor to the process of making decisions about your plumbing. There is nothing wrong with that as long as you factor in the long term costs as well. Never ever choose a plumber because they are the cheapest. You may get lucky once or twice, but it will cost you more in the long run.

Know Your Plumber Part I

Steve — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 22:51:51 +0000

An interesting thing happened today. I joined a plumbing forum. The forum rules said that I could have a link to my website in my signature, so I put the link to the PlumbingInfo.org home page. I went to the part of the forum where new members can introduce themselves and created a post that basically said, “Hello! Steve from California here. I am dropping in to say hello”. After several people from that site went to view this website, I was banned from the forum!

Just proof that most plumbers do NOT want you to be an informed consumer! They are afraid of you knowing what this site is telling you. My girlfriend assures me, however, that I am doing the right thing. Now, on to the topic at hand…

In this article, I wanted to cover plumbers themselves and how to know whether or not you have the right plumber for your plumbing needs. Most of you don’t know the difference, so I hope this helps.

There are basically two types of service plumbers (new construction/remodel plumbers are a different breed). They usually work under different pay structures, but the structures do overlap some. They are:

“In and out” techs
Up-sellers

In and Out Techs

They want to get in, figure out the quickest way to get you a result, collect their money and get moving to the next plumbing call. The reason is that they are usually either paid by the hour with bonuses for completing x amount of calls, paid according to how many calls they take (paid per call), or they are paid per billable hour. Paid per billable hour means that since each job is billed to you with a 1 hour minimum charge, if they can finish your job in less than an hour and hurry on to the next job, they are still getting paid for yours. Using this method makes it possible for the plumber to actually get paid for 10 or even 12 billable hours in an 8 hours day, depending upon how fast they are. Some of these guys are commission-based as well

The good thing about in and out techs is that if you know that what you need done is a quick, easy fix, they will take care of it quickly and be out of your hair. A lot of them will quote you an hourly rate over the phone, so you pretty much know what you are going to spend before hand.

The bad thing about them is that they are usually specialized in 1 or 2 areas. They may be great at clearing your sewer line, but will fumble over other work that they do not do as often. Also, these plumbers do not really care about performing anything other than a quick fix. They just don’t want to spend the extra time. They also have a tendency to make a mess wherever they are working.

Up-sellers

These are the best plumbers to have deal with the majority of your plumbing issues; they are also the ones you most need to be careful of. These guys are almost all commission-based employees, or they own the company. Either way, the more they charge you, the more they get paid. That statement sounds kind of scary, but let’s look at both sides of it.

Most plumbing issues are not a simple, quick fix. You almost always have options. The only way to get those options fully explored is with an up-seller. Their specialty is to get in, get started at relieving the symptom of your plumbing problem, then approaching you with a more permanent solution. If that is what you want, then you can okay the further work. If not, you can tell them “no thank you”.

Up-sellers are masters at finding everything that is wrong with your plumbing and spotting things that can go wrong in the future. Whether you want them to fix it all is another story. I believe, however, that it is always better to have too much info than not enough.

The bad thing about up-sellers is that they can be quite persistent. They are also more likely to try to take advantage of you – either by overcharging, or trying to sell you work that you don’t need. This is where the article “Before You Call a Plumber” is helpful.

So which way to go?

Well, I spent most of my career as an up-seller, and I truly believe that they give the best service. Let me explain why. Let’s take what would seem to most people to be a fairly straight forward plumbing issue that most would think is a quick fix:

Let’s say that every six months to a year, you notice that your kitchen sink drain starts draining slowly. You call out an “in and out” company every time it happens and they charge you $100 to clear the line. It is good for another 6 months to a year. Let’s say you call me out next time it happens. I am going to ask about your experiences and offer a more complete solution. If you decide that you are happy with $100 every 6 months to a year, I will do that for you. If, however, I can jet your lines for $300 and that’ll keep your drains open more than 3x as long, that saves you future time, inconvenience, and money. I make more money and you get a better product. That gives us a win/win. A good service plumber always wants the win/win. Although, if you are in a hurry and just want something done quickly, an in and out tech is what you want.

In my next article, I will cover how to know which plumber you are getting, and the best way to maximize your results with each, to make sure you are getting the best value for your plumbing dollar. Talk to you then.

Steve

Before You Call a Plumber

Steve — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 23:32:55 +0000

So you have a plumbing issue that you need taken care of, or maybe you just want to get some plumbing remodeling done. What do you do first? You look for a plumber, right? Wrong! The first thing you do is read this article and the articles that it points to.

You need to be prepared, before you ever even think of picking up the phone and calling a plumber. Believe me when I say that it can prevent all kinds of bad things from happening. I know this first hand.

In this article, I am going to outline some of the things that you should do to be prepared for your visit from the plumber. Many of these points will link out to additional articles, as I write them. Just look for the underlined phrases. Clicking them will take you to the relevant article.

Whether or not you are sure you need plumbing work done, these are the steps that everyone should take, prior to calling a plumber, to be sure that the experience is as productive and stress-free as possible. They are as follows:

Understand your plumbing problem. This can be a problem for many who do not consider themselves to be mechanically inclined. It is extremely important, however, that you do your best to get some kind of understanding about what is going on. If you can tell the plumber that you have a “supply side” leak, and your tests seemed to indicate that it was between the meter and the house, you will immediately gain that plumber’s attention and respect (as long as your logic is sound). This will save you time and money.

You knowing what’s going on will also keep your plumber honest. Believe it or not, there are plumbers out there that will cheat you if they can. If you know what is wrong, it makes it much harder for them to take advantage of you, and most will not even try. There are also times when you will be able to diagnose and repair problems yourself, without ever having to call a plumber.

Know what you want. This sounds kind of silly, but hear me out. There are always options to fix any problem. Good plumbers will let you know your options and give you a choice. Most plumbers will not. They will offer to fix your problem they way they want to. That is not always what is best for you! You need to know if you are looking for a quick fix to get you by (which I rarely recommend, but sometimes that’s what you need), a fix that will last you for longer than a quick fix, or a permanent solution.

Plumbing is rather unusual because it is all tied together in a system. Parts of the system depend on other parts of the system. Sometimes you need to replace most or all of the system in order to affect a sustainable result. You need to know beforehand if that is a route you are willing to take. This leads us to the next point:

Know your budget limit. Very simply put, you need to know how much you are prepared to spend on your plumbing today. You need to be willing to spend at least $500 if you are looking for anything other than a quick fix. Permanent solutions could cost you in the thousands (depending, of course on what you actually need done).

Know your outs. You need to know how to say no. Sometimes it will be because you just don’t like the plumber, or you don’t feel like they will do a good job. Maybe you feel like they want to charge too much, or want to do more work than you are ready for. For any of these reasons or a litany of others, you need to be able to say no.

To put it bluntly, if you are prepared, you will be able to just tell the plumber the truth about why you are saying no, and that should end it. Good plumbers can see through excuses. For instance, if you were to tell me, “Well, that’s more expensive than I thought it would be. I need to discuss it with my husband/wife.” I would respond with, “That’s fine, let’s give him/her a call and I can help to explain why we need to…” or “No problem, when would you like me to drop back by so we can discuss it together?” If you told me that you are fine with the amount of work that was done to this point and need to budget for the additional work, I would understand and respect that. I may ask if it is okay if I call in a month or 2 to follow up, but that’s about it.

Know what to expect. This actually covers a few different areas, but I will sum it up here as best I can.

Know what you want out of your plumber – Do you just need someone “quick and dirty” who can clear your drain from outside and be gone in 30 minutes or do you want a clean, professional who you can trust to not destroy the inside of your home? There are times for each, and they each charge different rates. Actually, you can get a dirty plumber that charges a lot (but has no business doing so), but you will never get a clean professional that works cheaply.

Know what they are going to charge you – This can be tough as more and more companies do not want to give prices over the phone. There’s no problem with that, as most give free estimates. You do need to know how much they SHOULD charge you though, so you know when someone is asking too much.

Know the company. Before calling a plumbing company, do a little research on them. Check their license status, look for online complaints, etc. Keep in mind that people will leave bad reviews far more often than good ones. Don’t choose not to hire, because of a bad review or two (some people complain about everything), but keep the complaints in mind when dealing with them.

One of my readers, who happens to be a plumber made a very good point that I do need to stress here. It is very important that you thoroughly check the license status of the companies that you call to make sure they are in good standing and have all of the necessary forms of insurance. Make sure that either the plumber that they are sending out is an employee and is working under the company’s contractors license, or that the plumber himself is licensed. Ask the company about the qualifications of the plumber they will send out. If they are not willing to spend some time with you on the phone to ease your mind, call someone else. Thanks, Jim!

I apologize that this article was so long, but there was a lot of ground to cover. I am not sure that I covered it all here, but I’m sure that future articles will pick up the slack. See you next time for more plumbing tips!

Why Plumbing Info?

Steve — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 05:23:04 +0000

Hello, Steve here. Welcome to Plumbing Info.org. If you don’t know who I am yet, you may want to read my “About Me” page before reading further.

So, I guess the question is: why does this website exist?

Well, you can relax, because, unlike 99.9% of the websites on the net, I am NOT trying to sell you something. You will find no affiliate links anywhere on this site. The ONLY way I can make a penny off this website is if:

You choose to click on one of the sponsored links
You choose to make a donation

Now that that’s over, let’s get down to plumbing!

Spending a lot of time at home over the last couple of months has given me a chance to reflect on my career and all that I have seen in my more than 15 years as a plumber. When I look back on it, I realize that the most important aspect of my career was my customers. Every job I did was dependent upon the interactions between me and my customers. The best and most satisfying work I ever did was when I was working for people that were knowledgeable and capable of making informed decisions.

Why is that? There are several reasons.

People that know what’s going on keep me on my toes. Someone who knows nothing about plumbing knows nothing about what I am doing. I can be lazy and “cut corners” and they would not know that difference.
People that know plumbing appreciate the value in what I do. It is nice to be appreciated by a customer that knows that the work I did was top notch. I can sense when someone knows that they got quality work.
People who know the game cannot be taken advantage of. When a person has had bad experiences with plumbers, it is all that much harder to get them to trust an honest plumber.
People who know their plumbing system are far easier to communicate with. I cannot count the number of times when I arrived at someone’s house and had them tell me “the trap is on the roof” or something equally unhelpful. It seems like it takes forever to get them to a point where they can actually give me information that I need (“the toilet is backing up into the bathtub”).

I actually have another reason for starting this website. The long and short of it is that it is not possible for me to interact with people in a service environment for so many years without actually caring about how they are treated. I have spent so many years, watching what some other “plumbers” did or seeing the work they left behind and shaking my head with disgust. In the past, I had the option of outperforming them and making them look silly. That is no longer an option, however. I hope that this site will actually do more than that. I hope that I can affect thousands of people, who will, in turn learn what they need to make sure that the bad plumbers and the cheats fail and the plumbers who worked hard to get where they are, by giving quality work at a fair price succeed.

So, why should you read this? There are so many benefits to you being “in the know” that I can hardly list them all, but I will list a few.

You will only hire qualified plumbers
You will only hire plumbers that do quality work (there is a difference)
You will get the work you need done done correctly
You will save money (lots of money)
You will be able to choose what work you need to do now vs. what can be done later
You will never be taken advantage of again
You will have information that a lot of plumbers do not want you to know

There are many more, of course, but I will leave them up to you to discover.

Talk to you soon!

Steve

Steve — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 21:33:17 +0000

Plumbing

If you are planning on getting plumbing work done, or just have plumbing related questions, I am glad you found this site! I have over 15 years of extensive, residential and commercial new construction, remodel, and service plumbing experience, and I built this site to pass the knowledge from that experience on to you.

If you are unprepared when you call a plumber, you can be in for a horrible experience. Many times, if you have the info you need about the problems you are finding, you may not need to call a plumber at all. Either way, you need the knowledge and tools to know exactly what is going on with your plumbing and how to best get it resolved. This site will get you there.

You get find the info you need a few ways:

Hover over the “Categories” menu above to see the dropdown where you can choose what categories to browse.
Do a site search, using the custom Google search box on the top right, just below the header graphic
Check our sitemap which separately lists all the posts and categories by title.

As always, if you find the information useful, I encourage you to donate whatever you wish, by clicking on one of the “Donate” buttons located throughout the site. We proudly use PayPal, so you know your transaction is safe.

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